AMA: Zendesk Former Group Product Manager, Abhiroop Basu on Product Management vs Product Marketing

I love this question since I recently made the PMM to PM transition! 1. Focus on transferrable skills. Three of the most important PM skills include: communication, leading through influence, and problem solving. PMMs looking to transfer into a PM role should ensure they are strong in all three. 2. Leverage institutional knowledge. It's much easier to transition from PMM to PM in your current company than applying to a new position in a different company. In your existing PMM role you are likely to know all the relevant stakeholders, have product knowledge, and understand the market. These are all going to be critical as a PM. 3. Build good relationships. Even before you approach the Product leader who you want to work for, make sure you have strong relationships with that team. This shouldn't be hard to do as a PMM, but it builds your credibility and makes the interview process a lot less stressful.

PMM and PM roles vary greatly across companies, but there are some common differences: 1. PMMs are the market and competitor experts. Unless the company is very small, a PM who is an individual contributor typically "owns" a narrower segment of the overall product. In contrast, a PMM typically looks across a wider range of the product and market. So, the PMM should bring that knowledge and experience to bear in the relationship 2. PMs are the product experts. Unsurprinsgly, PMs know more about their product area than anyone else. So, if there are questions or decisions that need to be made on the product roadmap, customer feedback, user experience, etc, the PM should own those. 3. PMMs are the conduit with the rest of the go-to-market org. A Product fails if no-one hears about it or uses it. A PMMs most important role is to help evangelise the product to internal stakeholders as well as customers. PMMs play a crucial in connecting the dots between cross-functional stakeholders to drive programs forward. 4. PMs are the customer experts. Partnering with design, PMs should have the best lens on customer experience. PMs should be defining the overall end-to-end user experience.

Usually Marketing, but in some smaller companies Product. PMs and PMMs will almost always have very close relationships (and if you don't then that's a problem). So, it usually doesn't matter which organization PMM reports into. However, at larger companies there can be some misalignment of priorities if PMMs report into the product management team. PMM teams that report into product become too narrowly focused on launches. PMMs typically cover a wide range of responsibilities, beyond just features. For examples, PMMs at Zendesk work on customer stories, industry solutions, sales enablement, pricing and packaging, competitor and market research. If PMMs are reporting into product, these other functions can become deprioritized. Further, while the PM / PMM relationship is most important, a close second is the relationship with the rest of the marketing team and sales. Sitting in the Product team pushes PMMs further away from other crucial partners and makes it harder to build trust and credibility with those teams. But, this isn't always the case at smaller companies. In some smaller companies having PMM within the Product team can help streamline launches, roadmap planning, as well as competitor/market research. Typically smaller companies have marketing teams focused on growth and performance marketing only, two functions which are far removed from PMM. As such it can often be tough to align the goals and targets of a Marketing team in a smaller company with that off a PMM. I want to be clear, I'm not saying this is a one-size fits all and there are plenty of smaller companies where it absolutely makes sense for PMM to report into Marketing. 

PMs should always lead voice of the customer (VoC) programs While PMMs need to have their ear close to the ground when it comes to customer feedback, it's ultimately the PM who will use the feedback to make product decisions. Additionally, PMs should never be in a situation where product feedback is "second-hand" or being prioritized by someone who doesn't own the roadmap.

Pricing and packaging is typically a PMM function. 1. P&P is typically a business decision. In general, PMMs own business and go-to-market decisions, while PMs own the user experience and the product roadmap. And P&P falls into the former. 2. Product should have a perspective on which features to build. Pricing and packaging refreshes typically happen because the composition of your existing product has changed materially (i.e. a lot of new features have been launched, new acquisitions, etc). As such PMs will always have a role to play in determining how certain features and product should be packaged 3. P&P involves a lot of market research. P&P requires deep market and competitive knowledge. Many PMs will have that, but this is typically a PMM function. As such, PMMs will be best placed to turn those insights into a coherent pricing strategy.

Both roles are quite tough to get into without experience, but PM is marginally easier. 1. Companies will typically have more PMs than PMMs. The PMM to PM ratio is roughly 1:4. Even if the company prioritizes PMM roles, it's rare that the ratio will get higher than 1:2. 2. There are fewer PMM roles in the industry. Just doing a quick search on LinkedIn shows that there are about ~100k open PMM roles, while there are about ~280k open PM roles. 3. PMs typically get hired first. Most companies will start with PMs. This is unsurprising since the goal at early stage companies is to build the product and get to product-market fit. A PMM role, while important, is usually secondary. 4. (counterpoint) PMM has a wider pool to draw from. Most marketing, sales, and biz dev roles, can transition into entry-level PMM roles. In contrast, there are fewer paths into being a product manager (common ones are business analyst and engineering). Finally, it's worth highlighting that, in general, both roles are hard to get into. There are very few entry-level PM or PMM roles. If you only have an undergraduate degree you are unlikely to land a PM or PMM spot. I've had many colleagues who've had extensive careers, done an MBA and then transitioned into a PMM role. Similarly, many PMs come with long software engineering backgrounds. If you are a new graduate and looking for a PMM or PM role, I would recommend looking for PM internsips and transitioning this into a full-time position (PMM internships exist but are less common for the factors mentioned above). The alternative is to go into one of the other careers mentioned above (marketing, sales, biz dev before going into PMM or software engineering before becoming a PM). 

Trust is the most important factor in a PM / PMM relationship. When I was a PMM, I worked with many Product Managers who did not understand the role of a PMM. They believed that the PMMs only role was to communicate the launch of a feature. This misconception often stems from the fact that in some teams PMs doesn't see value beyond the feature launch and PMMs do little to dispel the notion. So, how do PMMs and PMs build trust and work more effectively? 1. PMMs need to clarify their role. This sometimes depends on the leader's ability to communicate their team's functions, however individual PMMs can do a lot to articulate their role in the partnership. For example, PMMs can ask to be included in the discovery phase of feature development and bring relevant data and insights to the conversation. 2. PMs must communicate their roadmap early and often. On the flip side a PM needs to ensure they are communicating their roadmap, timelines, and feature delivery. If there are delays or changes, they need to ensure that the PMM is kept aware. Not only does this ensure there aren't miscommunications, it also builds long-term trust 3. PMMs need to build credibility. The best way for a junior or new PMM to build trust is to show their PM partner that they are a reliable. What does that mean? If you commit to a deadline, make sure you deliver. 4. PMs should treat PMMs as equal partners. Some PMs see their PMM partners as "service providers" or specifically the feature communication team. This minimizes the role of the PMM and it also breeds resentment. PMMs need to show their value , but PMs also need to be respectful of the role a PMM has to play in the team. 5. Open and transparent communication. As a PMM you should be comfortable talking to your PM about anything (positive and negative). If you don't have that kind of relationship, you won't be able to work together effectively.