AMA: Apttus Former Director of Product Marketing, Steve Feyer on Messaging
January 10 @ 10:00AM PST
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How do you measure the effectiveness of your sales content?
I'm struggling to determine whether my sales reps are actually using content, and if its helping them win deals.
Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
The most comprehensive way to measure the effectiveness of your sales content would be to implement a content management tool. Such a tool serves the materials to your reps, produces reporting, and allows you to connect the content usage to your outcomes. Pretty cool. I've been considering a tool like this but the cost and installation effort are still overkill for my company with 1000+ employees, so you probably want more of a "hack". (I can't recommend a particular tool yet as I haven't implemented one). So absent a tool I try to interview reps periodically to find out what they are using most. Feedback isn't data but works because it is usually consistent from rep to rep. For example I learned that our reps use 2 of my sales slides far more than anything else---great to know! I also try to build relationships with the reps so they will tell me what they need, if they can't find it. I keep track of these requests. For example, I got a series of comments that suggested my product messaging was too "high level" for our prospects, I focused new content on more tactical use-case messages and the reps feel it works better. I also look at engagement measures that I can prove such as downloads, qualified leads, etc. This shows what top-of-funnel content I should add to or maintain more frequently. Finally, I try to get a periodic analysis that connects the content used to the deals we win. In an org my size I try to get a sales ops analyst to do this for me. So, in summary, try this periodically (maybe once a quarter): 1. Interview good reps about what they use. 2. Review engagement metrics available to you 3. Review deal wins and connect to the content used The best content should reveal itself immediately!
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
Great question! But I'm going to blow up your premise right away: You can't prevent others from copying you. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? So instead of telling you how to dam up the ocean, let me suggest how you can turn this dynamic to your advantage. I have the privilege of working on a market-leading product, Apttus Contract Management. I find that my competitors do copy what I do and write, sometimes very quickly and explicitly. This forced me to think harder about the value proposition I offer. My software is used by corporate law departments, and very generally, I am telling law department leaders that they gain "speed, visibility and control" of their contracts with Apttus software. That's very true, but not specifically unique to my product. So focusing on this isn't differentiating. Instead, I've shifted more to talking about aspects of my solution competitors can't copy, and tied this back to the "speed, visibility, control" arguments at the end. (This shift is ongoing!) One example is that I'm writing about "smart contracts", encompassing AI and blockchain. These capabilities are things my product can offer but my competitors can't, so if they want to follow our message here they will start to get in trouble---our excellent reps will kill them in head-to-head competition. I am also bringing in customer stories more and more. Competitors can't copy my customer success stories because they are my customers! I'm also doing more with vertical solutions this year, whereas in the past our messaging has been more persona or broad-based. I also think that moving focus to outcomes generally---even better if it's a customer story---will set your message apart. Suppose you provide 37% faster data processing with your product. If a competitor copies that, they'd look foolish. If all else fails and they are explicitly cut-and-pasting your text, then hide a landmine. Put in some zero-width language or white-on-white text that would get your competitor's marketer in trouble! For example, you write "call [your company's phone number] to learn more". They may not catch it and would put it on their own site! So in conclusion: 1) You can't prevent copying, so don't worry about it. Take it as a compliment. :-) 2) Message about product directions/capabilities your competitor is not able to match (I admit this is easier when you're a market leader/larger company). 3) Put your customer stories first & let your customers relay your message. 4) Specialize your message more; vertical (industry) focused messaging is a good option 5) If they are literally copying your text, get their lazy marketer in trouble by putting landmines in your text.
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5 requests
How do you develop messaging that grabs attention in a crowded market?
We're in the sales development space and it's hyper competitive. It's hard to create messaging that cuts through the noise of all of our other competitors.
Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
I don't think there is a single answer here---it is the fundamental messaging & content marketing concern! As you know, we all see hundreds of commercial and noncommercial messages every day (I've seen an estimate that the average American views 3000 advertisements daily). Breaking through is HARD. But I have a few thoughts and a framework to offer. First the thoughts: KEEP IT SHORT: Your message is better if it's brief and to the point. I'm amazed how often I get inbound email with 6 paragraphs of run-on sentences! Five words is better than 10, 10 is better than 20, etc., almost without exception. Your revision process should always cut down. When I pull these AMA answers into another content format, I'll probably cut them in half and make them better by doing so. MESSENGER>MESSAGE: The world's best marketers don't say anything themselves, they let others say it for them. This is harder than doing it yourself! My generic advice here is to find 50 "influencers" for your product/market on Twitter, LinkedIn, networking groups, etc. Cultivate them, retweet them, meet them, get to know them, brief them. Keep track of your progress and do this daily. Eventually some of these folks will spread your message when you have something to share. This doesn't mean the message is unimportant. I'm suggesting that instead of spending an hour tweaking your data sheet, your time is better spent researching influencers on Twitter. Start by following Matt Heinz to learn more about how to do this well---he's great! All that said, I have a framework I try to use to decide if my message can break through. It's an acronym I call the MEDICAL Method. A good message---any format, and length---should do 7 things that I remember with the acronym MEDICAL. That message should be: * Memorable (won't be forgotten right away) * Exciting (attention grabbing!) * Differentiated (not just the same thing others are saying) * Informative (has useful, relevant info, not just "copy") * Consistent (in line with your brand) * Actionable (offers something for the reader to do next) * Localized (targeted to the right audience: persona, geography, industry, etc.) I run through this checklist anytime I produce something to see if I have done all 7. Usually my first draft is missing 1-2 of these things so I focus on those to make it better and more effective. It's a shorthand that I've found useful even if it doesn't answer exactly HOW to do these things. I'm sure other writers and marketers have their own "gut check" techniques. Here's mine and I'm interested to learn if it resonates at all with you. That's it for my AMA, thank you all for the great questions!
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How do you test messaging before launching a new product? What are different approaches that would help us be confident about the message that would result in better conversion?
I took a survey and in person interviews with customers and did different exercises but I am wondering what would make me more confident about the message
Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
I use surveys and interviews too, but in general I don't do a whole lot of testing or any "A/B" comparison of two messages. I'll put something out, and if it isn't converting leads or getting used by sellers then I'll try something else. Now let me caution here, my approach can work because I have solutions with high-dollar sales, consultative sales processes, and sales cycles that last for months. So if I have a suboptimal message at launch, I won't "miss the window" to sell my product. I don't have to buy TV ads or print manuals that will take 8 weeks to ship from Asia to my market. If you have a more transactional product, a physical product, or a highly competitive market, I am sure you'll need to optimize before launch more than I do! So all those cautions aside, I try a few things: 1) Run materials by internal experts for comment. 2) Run materials by trusted customers for comment (don't overuse the same person! It's a constant temptation). 3) Focus groups. 1) INTERNAL EXPERTS: I work with several industry leaders in contract management who have 20+ years of experience, and will include at least one of them in a review cycle for every message. Definitely use expert advice wherever you can get it. 2) CUSTOMERS: They are, by definition, experts at what your customers want to buy! I have customer advisory board meetings twice a year, and among other activities at these meetings use them as a chance to test a message. 3) FOCUS GROUPS: We email a few thousand users and offer a $50 gift card to join a 60-minute feedback session. We're looking to get 15-20 signups generally. On the focus group we ask pretty rapidfire questions looking for standardized answers ("on a 1-5 scale, do you agree with the following statement?") and also soliciting written comments. At the end of the day, I don't worry much about getting the message "exactly right" because you can always keep tinkering and testing. But that has a diminishing return very quickly. Take some of that testing time and instead do more demand gen---you'll probably have a better overall outcome!
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3 requests
Can you share your tips on making a great analyst briefing deck?
I'm about to make my companies first analyst briefing deck. I've made them in the past but want to make a really kick ass one this time around.
Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
Afraid that this is a confidential item I can't share---sorry! A few thoughts though about how we do this well (and I have to credit a colleague, Michael Dunne, who does this work and is an exceptional AR expert). 1) Sales slides: If they're good enough to sell with, they should be good enough for the analyst. 2) Growth & leadership: Show your momentum, your success, your profile in your market. Anything you'd show to a potential investor here too. Be bold without lying... 3) Format like the analyst: See what the analyst has published themselves and structure any custom slides in the way you think the analyst would create them. For example, some analysts love charts of data, others like consulting-y flow charts. Hope that helps a bit!
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1 request
What messaging framework do you use?
Would love frameworks to share.
Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
This is a tough one for me because I've tried several things in the last few years that DON'T work. I've used several different "message map" formats, and you can find a lot of examples online. The online formats are good, very professional, well-structured. They are useful ways to think about what you are saying & why you're saying it. But I find that my audiences internally struggle to use them, no matter the exact format. Even reinforcing with video training, quizzes, prizes, etc., hardly moves the needle. Moving into this year I'm trying 3 new tactics and we'll see if they get more consistent results: 1) Collateral 2) Storytelling 3) Selling paths 1) COLLATERAL. Rather than focus sellers on a formal template, I just tell them to speak from our publicly available materials. For reps, I am advising them to review our website and make sure they have their own way to talk through the message flow there. For our internal business development reps specifically, I'm advising them to refer to a specific piece of market collateral we made last year. This piece contains a complete high-level pitch for the product: leadership proof points, basic message, 6 differentiating features, 3 brief customer stories. So I tell the BDRs to use it as their "cheat sheet". This seems to have worked so far. 2) STORYTELLING. I buy into the idea that people remember a story better than a series of bullet points, and can relay it more convincingly. So I am turning customer stories (and a few made-up stories, think of the "in a world..." movie trailer format) into speeches that reps can give. 3) SELLING PATHS. I am laying out specific paths that tell our sellers a strictly defined way to sell a product through all the steps from engagement to close. Think of an "if they are X persona, say Y; if they ask about A, say B" format. The challenge is not boiling the ocean but so far we're on a reasonable path. I'll report back in 6 months how effective this has been! And if I can I'll share a template.
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