Steve Feyer
Product Marketing Director, Eightfold
About
I like to grow new technology categories. Current: AI for talent management, hiring & diversity.
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
This is a tough one for me because I've tried several things in the last few years that DON'T work. I've used several different "message map" formats, and you can find a lot of examples online. The online formats are good, very professional, well-structured. They are useful ways to think about what you are saying & why you're saying it. But I find that my audiences internally struggle to use them, no matter the exact format. Even reinforcing with video training, quizzes, prizes, etc., hardly moves the needle. Moving into this year I'm trying 3 new tactics and we'll see if they get more consistent results: 1) Collateral 2) Storytelling 3) Selling paths 1) COLLATERAL. Rather than focus sellers on a formal template, I just tell them to speak from our publicly available materials. For reps, I am advising them to review our website and make sure they have their own way to talk through the message flow there. For our internal business development reps specifically, I'm advising them to refer to a specific piece of market collateral we made last year. This piece contains a complete high-level pitch for the product: leadership proof points, basic message, 6 differentiating features, 3 brief customer stories. So I tell the BDRs to use it as their "cheat sheet". This seems to have worked so far. 2) STORYTELLING. I buy into the idea that people remember a story better than a series of bullet points, and can relay it more convincingly. So I am turning customer stories (and a few made-up stories, think of the "in a world..." movie trailer format) into speeches that reps can give. 3) SELLING PATHS. I am laying out specific paths that tell our sellers a strictly defined way to sell a product through all the steps from engagement to close. Think of an "if they are X persona, say Y; if they ask about A, say B" format. The challenge is not boiling the ocean but so far we're on a reasonable path. I'll report back in 6 months how effective this has been! And if I can I'll share a template.
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
I use surveys and interviews too, but in general I don't do a whole lot of testing or any "A/B" comparison of two messages. I'll put something out, and if it isn't converting leads or getting used by sellers then I'll try something else. Now let me caution here, my approach can work because I have solutions with high-dollar sales, consultative sales processes, and sales cycles that last for months. So if I have a suboptimal message at launch, I won't "miss the window" to sell my product. I don't have to buy TV ads or print manuals that will take 8 weeks to ship from Asia to my market. If you have a more transactional product, a physical product, or a highly competitive market, I am sure you'll need to optimize before launch more than I do! So all those cautions aside, I try a few things: 1) Run materials by internal experts for comment. 2) Run materials by trusted customers for comment (don't overuse the same person! It's a constant temptation). 3) Focus groups. 1) INTERNAL EXPERTS: I work with several industry leaders in contract management who have 20+ years of experience, and will include at least one of them in a review cycle for every message. Definitely use expert advice wherever you can get it. 2) CUSTOMERS: They are, by definition, experts at what your customers want to buy! I have customer advisory board meetings twice a year, and among other activities at these meetings use them as a chance to test a message. 3) FOCUS GROUPS: We email a few thousand users and offer a $50 gift card to join a 60-minute feedback session. We're looking to get 15-20 signups generally. On the focus group we ask pretty rapidfire questions looking for standardized answers ("on a 1-5 scale, do you agree with the following statement?") and also soliciting written comments. At the end of the day, I don't worry much about getting the message "exactly right" because you can always keep tinkering and testing. But that has a diminishing return very quickly. Take some of that testing time and instead do more demand gen---you'll probably have a better overall outcome!
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
Afraid that this is a confidential item I can't share---sorry! A few thoughts though about how we do this well (and I have to credit a colleague, Michael Dunne, who does this work and is an exceptional AR expert). 1) Sales slides: If they're good enough to sell with, they should be good enough for the analyst. 2) Growth & leadership: Show your momentum, your success, your profile in your market. Anything you'd show to a potential investor here too. Be bold without lying... 3) Format like the analyst: See what the analyst has published themselves and structure any custom slides in the way you think the analyst would create them. For example, some analysts love charts of data, others like consulting-y flow charts. Hope that helps a bit!
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • November 8
I had a PMM candidate tell me that he was not comfortable presenting to audiences. Obviously a deal-breaker there. Every PMM needs to present. I've reviewed resumes or LinkedIn pages which were poorly written. Not someone I am going to call, as every PMM needs to write well. If writing isn't your strength, make sure that you have a friend review your personal materials so you get the chance to impress with your other qualities. More generally, I always want to be sure that a PMM can "get their hands dirty" delivering the work. PMMs often have the same background and general intelligence as consultants, but it's not a consulting job. You don't succeeed at product marketing by issuing recommendations and then expecting someone else to deliver on them---it's all you, buddy! So I try to probe about how a candidate has actually delivered the accomplishments that are on their resume. If digging in reveals that they weren't a tactical & practical player at some point, I will pass.
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • April 5
We use a formal leveling rubric to evaluate levels. This is used across all market-facing roles, other than sales reps. To summarize a few of the key differences across levels: SENIOR MANAGER * A Senior Manager independent works cross-functionally; a Manager does not. * A Senior Manager can independently update their task list to reflect company/department goals; a Manager cannot without help. * A Senior Manager can independently learn and reflect industry best practice; a Manager has to be trained. * A Senior Manager can deliver feedback; a Manager cannot. * A Senior Manager can work with colleagues cross-functionally to share tasks according to expertise; a Manager cannot identify new ways to share tasks. DIRECTOR * A Director works with departmental leadership to develop processes and partnerships for cross-functional work; a Senior Manager only works within existing structures. * A Director turns strategic goals into tasks shared across their team/department and can aggregate tasks into a project delivery; a Senior Manager works at task level. * A Director can motivate, engage and coach teammates; a Senior Manager does not have this skill or expectation. * A Director proactively seeks and uses industry best practices; a Senior Manager can use this information independently but may not seek it. * A Director learns and reflects differences across geographies and cultures; a Senior Manager may not operate outside their regional office. * A Director defines and gains approval for initiatives that can deliver company/department goals; a Senior Manager works from a task list that flows from such initiatives. * A Director can evaluate talent performance and assist in placing staff in appropriate roles, even if the individual does not have direct reports at this time; a Senior Manager is not expected to have talent management skills. In general, I would not consider giving someone a director title if they haven't managed staff before; they're just not experienced enough. This doesn't mean they'll have a team here (which describes me--I'm in an IC role now and have managed people in the past). Something I look at when interviewing people: Someone who is talking about their work exclusively at a task level ("I wrote a great white paper") is probably a Manager, possibly Senior. Someone who can connect that to the strategy ("I needed to increase demand, so I wrote a white paper which provided the necessary increase") is a Senior Manager/Director. There's a lot more to think about in this discussion--just some of my key notes.
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
The most comprehensive way to measure the effectiveness of your sales content would be to implement a content management tool. Such a tool serves the materials to your reps, produces reporting, and allows you to connect the content usage to your outcomes. Pretty cool. I've been considering a tool like this but the cost and installation effort are still overkill for my company with 1000+ employees, so you probably want more of a "hack". (I can't recommend a particular tool yet as I haven't implemented one). So absent a tool I try to interview reps periodically to find out what they are using most. Feedback isn't data but works because it is usually consistent from rep to rep. For example I learned that our reps use 2 of my sales slides far more than anything else---great to know! I also try to build relationships with the reps so they will tell me what they need, if they can't find it. I keep track of these requests. For example, I got a series of comments that suggested my product messaging was too "high level" for our prospects, I focused new content on more tactical use-case messages and the reps feel it works better. I also look at engagement measures that I can prove such as downloads, qualified leads, etc. This shows what top-of-funnel content I should add to or maintain more frequently. Finally, I try to get a periodic analysis that connects the content used to the deals we win. In an org my size I try to get a sales ops analyst to do this for me. So, in summary, try this periodically (maybe once a quarter): 1. Interview good reps about what they use. 2. Review engagement metrics available to you 3. Review deal wins and connect to the content used The best content should reveal itself immediately!
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • June 27
The previous answers here are a bit too pessimistic, I think. First and foremost, benchmark your comp against peers at LinkedIn and Glassdoor (Follow-up question for the community: What other salary aggregators do you use?) This can prove your compensation is too low, if it is. Beyond that, use objective and subjective proof of your value. Objective: Your impact on pipeline and aspects of sales funnel that you touch. This is expecially critical for B2B. Subjective: Strong reviews from your company's best sales people and commercial executives. Bring this proof to your boss and ask them to advocate for your raise. Keep in mind that if you're not perceived as a strong performer, nothing you do or say is likely to get you a bump beyond COLA/corporate performance bonus. Also be prepared to be patient. Find out in advance what the pay adjustment cycle is at your companies. Most will only consider raises once or twice a year. Be sure you are making your case well in advance of the cycle--60 days is good. The brassiest option? Bring your boss a competing job offer from another company at a higher salary. And be prepared to take that offer if your company says no...
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • January 10
Great question! But I'm going to blow up your premise right away: You can't prevent others from copying you. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right? So instead of telling you how to dam up the ocean, let me suggest how you can turn this dynamic to your advantage. I have the privilege of working on a market-leading product, Apttus Contract Management. I find that my competitors do copy what I do and write, sometimes very quickly and explicitly. This forced me to think harder about the value proposition I offer. My software is used by corporate law departments, and very generally, I am telling law department leaders that they gain "speed, visibility and control" of their contracts with Apttus software. That's very true, but not specifically unique to my product. So focusing on this isn't differentiating. Instead, I've shifted more to talking about aspects of my solution competitors can't copy, and tied this back to the "speed, visibility, control" arguments at the end. (This shift is ongoing!) One example is that I'm writing about "smart contracts", encompassing AI and blockchain. These capabilities are things my product can offer but my competitors can't, so if they want to follow our message here they will start to get in trouble---our excellent reps will kill them in head-to-head competition. I am also bringing in customer stories more and more. Competitors can't copy my customer success stories because they are my customers! I'm also doing more with vertical solutions this year, whereas in the past our messaging has been more persona or broad-based. I also think that moving focus to outcomes generally---even better if it's a customer story---will set your message apart. Suppose you provide 37% faster data processing with your product. If a competitor copies that, they'd look foolish. If all else fails and they are explicitly cut-and-pasting your text, then hide a landmine. Put in some zero-width language or white-on-white text that would get your competitor's marketer in trouble! For example, you write "call [your company's phone number] to learn more". They may not catch it and would put it on their own site! So in conclusion: 1) You can't prevent copying, so don't worry about it. Take it as a compliment. :-) 2) Message about product directions/capabilities your competitor is not able to match (I admit this is easier when you're a market leader/larger company). 3) Put your customer stories first & let your customers relay your message. 4) Specialize your message more; vertical (industry) focused messaging is a good option 5) If they are literally copying your text, get their lazy marketer in trouble by putting landmines in your text.
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • October 25
I have to partly disagree with Mike--PMM can be an excellent path to CRO/GM/President or to CEO, albeit with stops in between. I know people in the Valley who have this progression. Typically after succeeding as a PMM they take on responsibility for managing sales, and can then own the P&L for a business. I think PMM is good preparation for these executive roles because it's strategic, customer-facing, and concerned with driving revenue. There's a motto I've heard occasionally that "Marketing can run Sales, but Sales cannot run Marketing".
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Steve Feyer
Eightfold Product Marketing Director • August 2
I second the TOPO recommendation!
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