AMA: Microsoft Head of Marketing for Viva Goals and Viva Learning, Alina Fu on Developing Your Product Marketing Career

All size companies have their own set of challenges. From what I’ve heard from colleagues and friends, Series A companies may be more challenging for PMMs because of where they are in their product-market fit journey, how they regard Marketing/PMM, and what their urgent needs are. PMMs get quite unhappy when other teams throw stuff at them without involving them in the process. This happens a lot at any stage company, unfortunately.

Your network, your manager’s network, your company’s leaders, other companies’ leaders that you admire, etc. The worst thing that could happen is that they say “sorry, I am too busy right now” so if they are busy, ask if they have anyone they would recommend. I also attend a lot of events and if I find someone I connect with and we have a good rapport, I will ask them directly as well. Don’t be afraid to ask - people want to help others if they can!

All of my roles have been satisfying for different reasons. I have found that I get most excited when I: 1. Learn new skills and enjoy doing the “grunt” work 2. Have a solid set of team members that I connect with 3. Am in an org where PMM is valued and influential There will always be ups and downs with any role at any company based on the timing. However, the people are what really keeps me at a place for long!

I’ve held both B2B and B2C PMM roles and while they are definitely different, there are also similarities. Let’s start with what they have in common: 1. Capturing customer insights 2. Focusing on outbound marketing 3. Defining a marketing strategy Where you start to diverge is how much resources, time and output you may deliver within the PMM scope. When I was in a B2C PMM role, I spent WAY more time in UXR, market research and walking through the customer journey; in my B2B PMM role, I focused my attention more on the MPF, product planning/vision doc, and demo videos. In my B2B PMM role, I would spend more energy on many pitch decks, sales enablement, and ABM. Another difference is when we think about outbound marketing in a B2B vs B2C context, it becomes pronounced. In B2B, there’s alignment needed between Sales and Marketing. In B2C, your website is probably the most powerful tool in your arsenal. Lastly, in B2B, the sales cycles are usually longer, TCO may be higher and the contract is more complex as there are multiple stakeholders, possibly even a decision-making committee. In B2C, the sales cycle is typically shorter, the volume makes up for the smaller margins, and there may be a single or a few decision-makers you’re interacting with. This means that the career trajectory for both types of PMMs can be the same. I’ve seen B2C PMMs cross over into CMO roles for B2B companies because they also have a B2C identity; I’ve also seen people with NO PMM experience take on Chief Growth Officers; and I’ve seen people with B2B experience become Chief Product Officers for B2C companies. Don’t limit yourself and pursue what you are interested in.

How much do you trust your manager/management chain? I’ve had direct reports who share their career aspirations with me, even if it’s a role outside of my team, and I count myself lucky that they trust me enough to share that. When they did, I would put them on projects that would expose them to the opportunity to build those skills. When I was at Google, they offered 20% projects and that allowed my direct report to experience what the other role would be like. I believe in nurturing people’s passions and leaning into their core competencies. I’ve also had team members or mentees who want to be managers and they knew in their gut that there was no upward path for them (because of headcount, their peers’ leveling, and their skillset) so they went to a smaller-sized company to be the first PMM or Dir of PMM (team of 1-2) to get the title before making the jump to a larger company. That’s another option. If you are truly invested in becoming a people manager, please start by telling your manager or skip level so they can keep an eye out for opportunities (this is assuming that you have a reputation as a high performer and you have a good relationship with your management chain). If you are in a company that invests in their employees (read: great culture), they would be able to offer alternatives such as managing an intern, leading more junior employees, or orchestrating a larger initiative. I also nominate people for managerial-type learning courses or support supplemental development - companies usually have an education/learning budget allocated for this. You just need to ask if these opportunities exist and if you can be considered for it.

Every company has its own system or values that they look for during candidate review. During interviews, especially at larger enterprise companies, the recruiter or hiring manager usually has a rubric that assesses how much the candidate fulfills the criteria. Here are what stands out for me in a pool of PMM candidates: 1. Achievement - how do they take initiative and demonstrate that they are results-oriented 2. Influence - how do they convey ideas that can influence others without formal authority 3. Leadership - how do they build on the work of others and help develop others 4. Adaptability/ Resilience - how do they navigate through ambiguous solutions and how do they pivot when needed 5. Self Awareness - how do they handle constructive feedback and how aware are they of their own strengths and opportunity areas 6. Problem-Solving - how well do they analyze situations, identify key issues, and produce an alternative solution 7. Strategy oriented - how well do they think beyond their current activity/scope into a broader vision The more senior the role, the more emphasis I have on finding a candidate that can address all 7 characteristics on this list.

I structure my PMM teams based on a blend of the following: * What are the goals of the PMM team * How the PMM team will be measured (this is related to how the company regards the PMM team) * What is the vision of an ideal PMM team I believe in an end-to-end approach to Product Marketing. Some companies focus primarily on outbound PMM while some companies emphasize inbound PMM - I like my PMM team to cover both. Additionally, it depends on the headcount allocation and who is already on the team. I’ve been able to build a PMM team from scratch before (pitched a proposal to our CMO and got 3 HC to start). I’ve also inherited a PMM team, which has its own set of challenges and I’ve also been able to grow my PMM team to get closer to my ideal state. Structurally, I think it’s important to have someone with a keen interest in product innovation so they can cover the inbound PMM function. It’s also crucial to have someone who is creative, enjoys writing and editorial work, as that covers the outbound PMM scope. Then, the rest is dependent on the size of my team, the skills of the team members and whether customer marketing sits with Marketing or CS.

I have a lot of meetings (sometimes triple booked) where a lot of context switching occurs every 30 min or so. I don’t say this to scare you off but to caution you that PMMs are one of the most interdisciplinary roles you can have and are the intersection between Product, Marketing, Sales and Customer Success/Experience. If you are fine with multi-tasking, managing multiple workstreams, and collaborating ALL THE TIME, you will enjoy it like I do!

If I could only pick 3, it would be: * Storytelling * Competitive insights * Customer-obsessed Telling a story isn’t just filling out a messaging and positioning framework but about being able to pitch a narrative on why status quo is broken, paint what that world would look like, and why your product will address the need. Layer in competitive insights in your analysis about the market, trends, and competitors to highlight your product’s differentiators and you can go even farther. Finally, doing all of that while being customer-obsessed and putting imaging how, when, and why they would choose your product and how to create a great product experience for them will help you reach that next level.

You can say that I fell into product marketing fortuitously. I started my career at Intel as a Technical Marketing Engineer (TME) role because I wanted to be customer-facing but my education was in Electrical Engineering and Computer Sciences. I took this TME role because I am very extroverted and love to figure out what motivates others. When I graduated, I was offered a Product Manager role (had no idea what that was at the time or how “hot” it would become) because of my degree and I really enjoyed the roadmap innovation, product planning and defining the features aspects of my role. However, what I enjoyed above all else was talking to customers about their pain points, presenting and demoing my product at industry events, and pitching the product in creative ways to specific customer types (what is known today as solutions marketing and industry marketing).

I’ve been the only PMM several times and think it only works if you LOVE being a PMM. Some people call PMM the “quarterback” who is charting the marketing strategy. Others refer to the PMM as the hub in a marketing hub and spoke model. I’ve also heard it described as being the CMO for your product. All of these analogies resonate strongly with me. When I was the only PMM, I had to prioritize ruthlessly and do it all. What made it more challenging was that I gravitated towards incubation products that had not been around for more than a year, so everything was built as v1. Being the first/only PMM is HARD. I’m proud of you for taking on that challenge. However, what is the company’s perspective on growing the PMM team and if there’s additional headcount, would you be the leader or would they hire someone to manage you? Do you enjoy managing? I knew early on in my career that I would enjoy being a people manager and told my managers as soon as I had proven myself. I also informally oversaw junior colleagues’ work and was fortunate to have great mentors to help me become a better coach. Imagine my surprise to learn that not everyone wanted to be a manager (my previous company was very Type A and most people asked to be a manager), as some folks have cited that the vast amount of overhead/additional work does not make up for the slight bump in pay. When I thought more about this, I realized that some companies have a certain level where the two tracks (IC vs manager) diverge, so you are getting paid at the same level but doing more HR/people-related overhead and have to manage up. I’ve met superstar individual contributors who were not happy in a managerial role but “that’s what the next step was”. I’ve also seen stellar ICs become even better managers because they were able to delegate and scale their impact. How would you describe your preferences between being an IC vs a team lead? I learned very different skills as an IC vs as a leader. As an IC, you can take on different roles to learn different ways to be a great PMM, whether it is exposure to a different industry, ICP, ecosystem or geography. As a leader, you learn how to manage stakeholders and empower your direct reports. You also spend a lot of time negotiating with your peers and cross-functional departments. Regarding job descriptions, my recruiters usually screen by the number of years of experience in a PMM role and the total number of years of work experience to determine “entry-level” or not.

I am an extrovert so I will share my observations. I have managed introverts on my team and they were excellent PMMs. They were super methodical, analytical and thorough. I truly valued what they brought to the team dynamic. Part of being a great manager is being able to assess people’s strengths and interests, and amplify their potential by placing them in the right role or giving them projects that would make them stand out. As PMMs, we need to be able to have great written and verbal communication because we bring together so many workstreams and have so many collaborators and stakeholders but you do not need to be the one always in front of execs or presenting at large events to be successful as a PMM.

I get this question a lot and I think it’s dependent on the hiring manager and the need at the time (stage of the company, maturity of the market, product-market fit, how ARR/NDR is doing, etc) I personally hire candidates that have completely different backgrounds and strengths from each other. I’ve hired people from sales roles, biz dev roles, product management roles, customer success roles etc. The reason is that I structure my PMM team to embrace the entire lifecycle of a product: from concept to launch and possibly sunset. I need diverse experiences to support these phases. The best compliment I got from a C-level exec was “how did you build this team of PMMs in which each PMM has a strength that is completely different from each other but it all works so well together?”

The people. I choose roles based on who I will learn from, collaborate with, and interact with. The people at the C-Suite/executive level and the people on your immediate team have a lot of impact on what you want to achieve and how you go about your role. Then the people outside of your team influences how you and your role are perceived. Overall, people make up the culture, impact your emotional/mental/physical well-being, and determine whether you enjoy spending most of your time with them.

Like any good first meeting, ask yourself some discovery questions: 1. What do I enjoy doing the most at work? 2. Why do I want to get into product marketing? 3. What products do I think are marketed well? Why? 4. What products can be marketed better? How would I market it differently? 5. Did I enjoy thinking about these discovery questions? If so, try to break into PMM!

You move on. If you haven’t found success or there isn’t a concrete plan to change things it sounds like you have outgrown the role/team/company. It could be for a variety of reasons, some of which are outside of your manager’s control. There may also be a disconnect between your vision of the ideal role and what the organization needs at the moment. I would ask myself - if this isn't what I want to do, is it worth sticking around?

My junior PMMs have so much energy and enthusiasm but sometimes they miss the bigger picture. Thus, I would recommend honing in on: * Clear and concise communication * Strategic thinking and GTM planning * Being thorough - what impact does X have on Y I’ve noticed that junior PMMs usually get outbound marketing roles and believe that’s a great way to get used to how we communicate product launches, digital marketing and customer marketing.

I think that depends on the hiring manager. I would even go so far as to suggest maybe you haven’t found the right role or HM who is looking for that broad horizontal PMM or you may be under-leveling yourself. As you become more senior, that is when the broad horizontal PMM skills come into play. It also has to do a lot with the culture of hiring at said company. I’ve worked at a company where they are looking for that ALMOST-EXACT fit and domain expertise; I’ve worked at a company where they didn’t know what they were looking for but knew a PMM was “hot”; and I’ve worked at a company where my colleagues and direct reports all have VERY different backgrounds. If you have a specific skill set and you feel like the companies you’re interviewing for aren’t looking for that, I would recommend changing a dimension of the types of companies you are submitting your application to and see if that gets better results.