Product Marketing vs Product Management
3 answers
Director of Product Marketing, dbt Labs • April 26
Oh interesting! I've done both, but I truly believe PLG is the future for
everyone. Or, I should say the paths are likely to converge!
New organizational structures that are empowering end-users to make more
decisions for themselves, coupled with extremely efficient try>buy experiences
are reducing sales cycles and making the "executive buyer" persona less relevant
(not irrelevant, just less of a blocker than it used to be).
As hinted about, none of this means sales GTM motions are going away. Anywhere a
problem and solution isn't extremely well understood, a sales person can provid...
Director, Product Marketing, Gong.io • June 8
Both are super valuable, and gaining experience in both will make you a
well-rounded PMM. Great for when you lead a team in the future :)
That being said, it also depends on what you enjoy. Having done both, PLG PMM
work feels more B2C to me, where most of my time was spent working with
campaigns, brand, and copy teams (other than product of course!). So if you
enjoy working on customer journeys, creative briefs, and marketing assets, then
that's a great fit for you.
Whereas with SLG motions, your primary stakeholders are enablement and the
field. In these roles, I've worked on messag...
Head of Product Marketing, HiredScore • July 29
Wow! It sounds like you have great opportunity. I would recommend product led
growth. So many companies are heading in this direction and these skill sets
will be invaluable to you in the future. PLG has not slowed down and is
infiltrating even the most complex B2B enterprise SaaS products. It's a great
way to position yourself as a PLG leader in the future.
10 answers
VP, Product, Barracuda Networks • September 7
You're basically asking how to get PM to do their job. It sounds like the PM in
your example just lacks a fundamental understanding of that they need to do.
That's a HUGE issue. My advice? Forget about the PM and look at his/her boss and
the CEO. Is this a systemic issue with the company, or is management bought in
to what PM needs to do. If management is bought in, you might want to suggest an
offsite or putting the team through Pragmatic Marketing. If management is NOT
bought in, get a new job because your company is going nowhere fast.
VP of Product Marketing, Oyster® • July 25
Whether you're trying to improve the relationship with the PM or to advance the
conversation with their boss/leadership per Mike's suggestion above, you can
make a more effective case if you're able to bring data to the discussion.
First you need to be able to clearly articulate customer problems that are
unaddressed with the existing product and roadmap. If you don't know what those
problems are, as a PMM you have scope to try and help define them. If you're in
B2B, talk to salespeople to get an initial idea. If you're in B2C, look for
on-hand feedback from sources if you have them: NPS...
I agree with Mike's answer here. In many B2B organizations, a Product Manager is
synonymous to a Release Manager. And in these environments, the product teams
are not communicating to sales. If that is the case, it will be difficult to
change that culture.
The best way to cut through this is to quantify feature prioritization in $$. In
most organizations, the only language that everyone understands is that of
revenue. It can help you get the necessary support from management.
Here are some tips that I have seen work in my previous roles:
* Engage Customer Success. You need the cu...
Director of Product Marketing, Quizlet | Formerly Udemy • January 30
Yes! I can relate!
Feature-level messages are so limited on the marketing side. Part of your job as
PMM is help recommend the best way to 1) connect features benefits, 2) roll
benefits into value props, and 3) provide positioning statements for your target
markets.
PMMs can take the lead on drafting this work but it's really beneficial to
include your PM and other key stakeholders in the process to get their buy in.
Once you settle on the place you want to go with regard to value prop, consider
testing the messaging and putting it in front of customers.
As you validate the streng...
Based on the question, it sounds to me like your product management team isn't
thinking very strategically. Perhaps they're not close enough to customers, or
they're too close to a select few, who have taken over the roadmapping process
for their own needs.
I'd encourage you to try to translate the company's strategy and positioning
into themes, and talk to product leadership about what the key areas of
innovation are that will make the company successful over time. Product knows as
well as any team in the company that sprints are one of the most precious
resources in the business. Help ...
Executive Vice President Product (fmr VP PMM), Snow Software • March 2
The job of Product Management should be to focus on solving customers problems
not simply shipping new features no one is going to use.
If this behavior is isolated to one Product Manager, then I would work closely
with that PM to understand the key metrics of success for that feature which
should relate back to some form of product adoption.
If this behavior is broad – meaning the entire PM organization cares more about
shipping features than solving customer problems – then this is a very tough
problem. You can’t solve this yourself. Only the Head of Product can solve this
problem...
CEO, Product School • April 3
The Product Manager's job is more than that, but you are right. We have to focus
on consumer problems and solve them. However, we have a massive list of problems
and bugs to fix and prioritize based on business growth, data results, and
features that directly impact the goals. You can try to ask your Product Manager
about the changes and bugs that he is prioritizing to understand how long it
will take to fix the problems the users and marketing identified. Some Product
Managers can make mistakes like dive into new features instead of fix problems,
but if these problems significantly impact ...
Product Marketing Lead, Creator Promotion, Spotify • August 23
I suggest that you start by taking a step back to really diagnose the problem.
Why is it that the team wants to ship so many features?
I try to always assume good intent. With that in mind, the team's actions are
probably logical, but there is either mis-alignment on the goal they are
optimizing for or the process that will best get to the goal.
Start by getting on the same page about the goal. Do you have the same
undersatnding of vision for the future of the product? Are you focused on the
same metrics? Are you building for the same segment of customers?... Does the
product team well ...
Director of Product Marketing, dbt Labs • April 26
Ah I'm sorry you're in that situation. PMM should be part of product roadmapping
meetings, since everything that's in the queue should be going through some sort
of business valuation (what is the cost/benefit of putting this feature into the
world).
But I think stepping back to understand the motives here might be a good place
to start. Maybe there's a company OKR on product differentiation, or a
cross-team initiative to reduce competitive losses? Or maybe product<>market fit
isn't quite there and the team is experimenting with different use cases for
different audiences?
If none of ...
Head of Product Marketing, HiredScore • July 29
This is extremely important but not easy to do. Sometimes it feels like product
managers are so busy shipping features that they don't see the forest through
the trees. If you involve them in the research process, they are more apt to
incorporate the customer feedback into their deliverables. If possible, get your
PMs face-to-face with a customer. Help them build some customer empathy. If
that's not possible, provide short snippets of conversations in Gong. Be
persistent. It's important.
8 answers
Director of Pricing and Packaging, Twilio Flex, Twilio | Formerly Narvar, Medallia, Helpshift, Feedzai, Reputation.com • April 28
Short answer. When you are more deep than broad. When you like things more than
people.
Long answer.
There are no rules to this. Skills evolve and change over time. You may want to
pursue an option longer term even if the fit is weak today. That being said, PMs
tend to be more detail-oriented than PMMs. They have to be, writing a 6 page PRD
that accounts for all edge cases is something that takes a lot of depth and
intellectual rigor. PMMs have a different challenge, they need to look at the
forest from the trees, and map out strategy. PMMs need to change their focus
constantly, PMs...
Group Product Manager, Zendesk • January 12
It comes down to which aspects of the role excite you the most. Depending on the
company you are working at, Product Marketing and Product Management can have a
lot of overlap. I’ll first discuss some of the similarities and differences in
the roles before summarizing how you should think about making the choice.
Early in my career I found this Medium article instructive in deciding which
path to pursue. Product Marketing really has two sets of functions, “outbound”
activities and “inbound” activities. Put simply, “outbound” Product Marketing
focuses on activities like developing marketi...
Executive Vice President Product (fmr VP PMM), Snow Software • March 2
I recently had a member of my team leave Product Marketing to become a Product
Manager. We spent a few months talking through and planning this transition.
During this process, what I learned is that the decision to be a PM or PMM comes
down to where you enjoy spending your time.
PM and PMM are both focused on solving customer problems. They just go about it
in different ways.
The PM works to build a product that solves the problem whereas the PMM focuses
on building the go-to-market strategy required for that customer to know that a
product exists in market that can solve their pro...
Sr. Director Product Marketing, VMware | Formerly Accenture, United States Air Force • March 29
A few questions to ask yourself:
Do you want to be the mini-CEO of the product?
Do you have enough experience to appreciate how engineering operates to build a
product?
Are you comfortable making major tradeoffs between direct customer requests and
company strategic priorities?
Are you savvy enough to navigate tough decisions when requirements or quality
are cut to meet deadlines?
Are you excited about documenting product strategy, epics, users stories and low
level requirements?
If you answered yes to a majority of these, by all means seek out a role in PM.
Product Marketing Director, AR/VR, Meta | Formerly Mozilla, LeapFrog • April 12
Starting in CPG brand management I had the good fortune to wear both of these
hats (and many more!) early in my career. This ignited a love for both
disciplines and started me down a path where I'd jump back and forth between
them for about a decade (thanks to all my incredible managers who never forced
me to choose a lane!). There are similarities in the roles - which sometimes
creates confusion and tension - in the ways they focus on the end user,
influence through storytelling, sweat positioning and facilitate within complex
xfn environments, so it's natural for talented individuals to b...
Director of Product Marketing, dbt Labs • April 27
Interests: What kind of questions do you want to answer?
This is just my personal take, and probably oversimplified, but if you're driven
by optimization questions like "Who is getting the most value out of this?" "How
do we better articulate what this thing does?" "How do we increase close rates
at the enterprise?" then you're more likely to want to stay in PMM.
If you're driven by value creation questions like, "What would make this product
really exciting and engaging?" "How do we stay ahead of the competition?" "How
do we build world class experiences?" AND you're incredibly comfortab...
Director, Product Marketing, Gong.io • June 8
This question hits home for me. In a previous role, I explored the opportunity
to move to the PM org, so I did a bunch of research.
First, at a high level, I love the book "Designing Your Life." If you're into
self-reflection and personal growth books, this one's for you. It'll help you
zero in on the type of work that gives you energy vs drains your energy.
Then, I would do some candid interviews with PMs to understand what a day in the
life is like, because sometimes from the PMM perspective we're only seeing half
of the story.
My own personal takeaway was that a PM's process is ...
Head of Product Marketing, HiredScore • July 29
Would you rather answer the question "how" or "why"? In my opinion, product
managers are more apt to answer the "how" and product marketers are more apt to
answer the question "why". That being said, great PMs and PMMs are able to do
both. It comes down to it being a personal choice. The fact that you're asking
this question means you're curious and empathetic. Keep it up!
7 answers
Group Manager, Engagement & Retention Campaigns, Adobe • June 7
The more context the better. PMMs should help to fill in the gaps, but a product
brief should include:
- What problem this product / feature solves
- Who it solves for and insights about this audience
- Why we solve it differently (different > better)
- Timeline with milestones to get there
- Risks to timeline
- Broader context/ how this fits in with other things you're doing (or if it's
brand new, why / how)
Others?
I’ll probably need to write a blog post about it one day. :) For now, here is a
brief summary of what we aligned on with the product team in terms of the
categories of inputs we need to prepare a successful launch:
Earlier in the process:
1. Feature Description
2. Target Audience
3. Use Case and Customer Benefits
4. Timeline
Later in the process:
5. Business Objective
6. Availability (plans the feature will be available under – might not be
relevant in your case)
7. Support Needed from Marketing
8. Linked to Product Assets
9. Additional Resources
Hope it's helpful. I'm happy to chat more!
CEO, Product School • July 15
This is a tricky question! I’d argue that there is more to the collaboration
between Product Management and Product Marketing than the effectiveness of the
Project Brief. However, you can read more about the relationship between PMMs
and PMs here .
As for what to include in the project (or Product) brief, it should outline (at
least) the following:
1. Product name and release date
2. Who the product is targeted to
3. Product description
4. Summary of the customer needs the product will meet
5. Customer value proposition
6. The impact the product will have on the customer
7. ...
Executive Vice President Product (fmr VP PMM), Snow Software • March 2
When the transfer of information between PM and PMM occurs via a Project Brief,
it is essential that the PM include a good description of the market problem
this feature/product is intended to solve, why is this problem worth pursuing,
who cares about it, why is our solution different than anything else the target
customer could have purchased in market, and key use cases. The use case
information should be broken down into feature and benefits.
Director of Product Marketing, dbt Labs • April 26
oh mylanta I love this question. I think a lot of this can be an interative
process with the PMM, but I think the things I see most often left out of these
documents that could completely change the way a new feature is positioned
includes:
- Not just what problem this solves, but how was the problem solved before this
feature existed? (Was there a workaround in our product, or did users lean on
external solutions?)
- Not just who will use the solution, but who, downstream, benefits from its
use?
- Not just the business value, but the value for an individual that will prompt
them t...
Director, Product Marketing, Gong.io • June 8
There are different levels of information PMM needs from their PM partners
throughout the development process. Depending on how your product documentation
works, this information could entirely live in a product/feature brief or be
split up between the brief and the product spec.
At a high level, here's a deck we've used internally to build collaboration
between PM and PMM. To be honest, we don't always get the answers to these
questions in document format (or early enough), so sometimes this information is
shared in meetings.
Of course the size of the feature is a consideration as ...
Head of Product Marketing, HiredScore • July 28
Product Managers have to give us PMMs the information we need to be successful,
but it's often on us to inform them of what we need and hold them accountable
for providing the proper documentation. Ensure you have a good relationship with
the PMs you engage with, as well as the VP of Product who can give you the
clearance to hold PMs responsible for providing the right context in the form of
a feature brief.
While the work starts WAY before the feature brief is created, here is what I
hold the PMs accountable for providing (in general, it varied launch-by-launch):
Target audience:
-...
2 answers
Group Product Manager, Zendesk • February 25
PMs should always lead voice of the customer (VoC) programs
While PMMs need to have their ear close to the ground when it comes to customer
feedback, it's ultimately the PM who will use the feedback to make product
decisions. Additionally, PMs should never be in a situation where product
feedback is "second-hand" or being prioritized by someone who doesn't own the
roadmap.
Senior Director of Product Management, GitHub • July 12
I think "share" is the right term to use here. I've heard marketing teams claim
that only they represent the voice of the customer, which is obviously not true.
There are many groups in a company that interact with customers and listen to
their voices. It's a PM's eternal challenge to figure out which voices are the
ones they should weigh more heavily and which ones less!
I would say that PMs tend to engage deeply with a small proportion of the
customer base and get a certain perspective that is then balanced by the views
that PMM gains by interacting with the broader market using differ...
3 answers
Product Lead (fmr Head of Product Marketing), Square • February 2
* It’s a good idea to try internal transfer if you want to transition from PMM
to PM, or vice versa. Learning the craft of a new discipline is not easy. You
are more likely to set yourself up for success if you minimize other
variables like new company, new product, new team.
* Anchor on your strength. There are many transferable skills between the two
disciplines, e.g., customer discovery, data analytics, communication and
influencing skills. Leverage your strength in the new role and you will find
it easier to get early wins and build confidence in yourself.
* But def...
Group Product Manager, Zendesk • February 25
I love this question since I recently made the PMM to PM transition!
1. Focus on transferrable skills. Three of the most important PM skills
include: communication, leading through influence, and problem solving. PMMs
looking to transfer into a PM role should ensure they are strong in all
three.
2. Leverage institutional knowledge. It's much easier to transition from PMM to
PM in your current company than applying to a new position in a different
company. In your existing PMM role you are likely to know all the relevant
stakeholders, have product knowledge, and un...
Senior Director of Product Management, GitHub • July 11
This is a great question. I've transitioned from PM to PMM and back again, so I
can give you my perspective on both.
The biggest challenges for anyone moving into PM, whether that be from PMM or
other roles, are the following:
* deeply understanding the domain;
* leading by influence; and
* being comfortable with high levels of ambiguity.
(And, of course, the ability to make good judgment calls on top of all that.)
For PMMs specifically, particularly those without a technical background, the
first area is going to be the one that's most challenging. You can't be
successful at lea...
3 answers
Product Lead (fmr Head of Product Marketing), Square • February 2
It’s a joint decision between product management and product marketing at
Square. In general our PMMs tend to have more ownership here. They will lead
competitive analysis and commission qual/ quant research to inform pricing
decisions.
That said, from what I observed, when you zoom into the specific PM/ PMM pair,
it really comes down to whoever has the expertise and the respect from the team
to make the right call.
Group Product Manager, Zendesk • February 25
Pricing and packaging is typically a PMM function.
1. P&P is typically a business decision. In general, PMMs own business and
go-to-market decisions, while PMs own the user experience and the product
roadmap. And P&P falls into the former.
2. Product should have a perspective on which features to build. Pricing and
packaging refreshes typically happen because the composition of your
existing product has changed materially (i.e. a lot of new features have
been launched, new acquisitions, etc). As such PMs will always have a role
to play in determining how certain ...
Senior Director of Product Management, GitHub • July 10
I used to be very much on the side of "PMM should own pricing" but I will now
caveat this with a couple considerations.
First off, though, I think at a smaller company, say a startup where you're the
only PMM, PMM should still own pricing. That's because there's both a strategic
("how should we set our suggested retail prices and package the product?") and
tactical ("how much should we allow our reps to discount the product and on what
basis?") element to pricing. At smaller companies, I've seen more problems with
the latter. Failure to set acceptable discount levels and enforce them wit...
3 answers
Product Lead (fmr Head of Product Marketing), Square • February 2
Ha, organizational design questions are always the fun ones. :)
These types of questions don’t have a right or wrong answer. Each design will
have its pros and cons and it’s all about what you are trying to optimize.
When I started in product marketing at Square, we reported into marketing. About
8 months later, we got spun off marketing and reported into product GMs. While I
didn’t think that changed how I did my job - reflecting on the experience - I
did feel some differences. While I was in marketing, I felt a lot closer and in
sync with my channel and creative partners. On the other h...
Group Product Manager, Zendesk • February 25
Usually Marketing, but in some smaller companies Product.
PMs and PMMs will almost always have very close relationships (and if you don't
then that's a problem). So, it usually doesn't matter which organization PMM
reports into. However, at larger companies there can be some misalignment of
priorities if PMMs report into the product management team.
PMM teams that report into product become too narrowly focused on launches. PMMs
typically cover a wide range of responsibilities, beyond just features. For
examples, PMMs at Zendesk work on customer stories, industry solutions, sales
enableme...
Senior Director of Product Management, GitHub • July 10
This is a popular question and one that I've struggled with a lot in my years
doing both PM and PMM. Most answers I've seen tend to weasel out of a strong
point of view ("it depends!") but I am going to go out on a limb and firmly
state that I believe product marketing should report into marketing.
Here are a couple of reasons why.
1. It sets up a nice, healthy tension between two functions at the executive
level. Too often, product executives complain that marketing (that would be
the traditional office of the CMO without product marketing) is doing a poor
job at pitching ...
2 answers
Group Product Manager, Zendesk • February 25
Both roles are quite tough to get into without experience, but PM is marginally
easier.
1. Companies will typically have more PMs than PMMs. The PMM to PM ratio is
roughly 1:4. Even if the company prioritizes PMM roles, it's rare that the
ratio will get higher than 1:2.
2. There are fewer PMM roles in the industry. Just doing a quick search on
LinkedIn shows that there are about ~100k open PMM roles, while there are
about ~280k open PM roles.
3. PMs typically get hired first. Most companies will start with PMs. This is
unsurprising since the goal at early stage comp...
Senior Director of Product Management, GitHub • July 10
It depends on what your background is. If you have a background in traditional
marketing, it's going to be easier to get into product marketing by learning
both the domain and the product in-depth. The advantage of coming from marketing
is that you already know what a demand generation organization needs from
product marketing in order to effectively articulate the product and fill the
funnel.
It's easier to get into product management if you come from a technical
background such as engineering or design, but also including roles like
technical support, customer success architect, or pro...
3 answers
Executive Vice President Product (fmr VP PMM), Snow Software • March 2
The most important business objective for Product Marketing is to help the
business achieve its sales targets – for some businesses this will be measured
in MRR or ACV. However you measure this number, ensure you understand PMMs role
in helping the organization meet it. This is the most important thing PMM can do
and everything we prioritize needs to tie back to it. If it does not, then we
should not be working on it.
Director of Product Marketing, dbt Labs • April 27
Customer segmentation—who cares the MOST, why are they using us, what are their
alternatives, why would they stay, why would they leave. Both qualitative
(interviews), and quantitative( (product usage and sales cycle data).
I think getting incredibly clear on user profiles, habits and motivations is a
critical input for every other area of the business. Things like posiitoning and
messaging fall out of user understanding, and the very downstream activities
many PMMs attach themselves to—things like enablement, demos, content creation,
pricing and packaging, etc can all actually be split...
Director, Product Marketing, Gong.io • June 8
This really depends on your business model, the org structure, and company
norms, but I can share the mission we developed for the PMM team here at Gong.
PMM deeply understands our customers, products, and market in order to deliver
the right product, to the right audience, with the right message.
This is the #1 objective, and the way you accomplish this is through a variety
of intiatives. Our top ones are:
1. Develop GTM strategy
2. Inform product strategy
3. Prioritize customer segments
4. Serve as subject matter experts for enabling the field
5. Evangelize our category, cust...